Questions and discussion forum

Please read through the articles that cover your questions, or topic of conversation before posting, as understanding the basics give the community a better chance of helping you.Please Note: Most of the frequently asked questions we have had over the years have their own article already.

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Di Heap / VibePlus Posted On:2017-06-22 12:44:18

Trudi, To clarify – when looking at a person using a vibration machine the machine’s quality and power is not obvious by how much the person or the machine appears to be moving.

·         On a High Energy Lineal (heavy steel and quality construction), the machine has no obvious movement and the person looks like they are not moving at all – but there is direct response in the muscles targeted = excellent machine quality, workout and therapy

·        On a Premium Speed Pivotal machine, it might look like the machine and person are moving a lot from side to side Or it might look like more of a shallow sideways rumble; depending on the position the person is in and the speed they have set affects how far each side of the platform moves up and down.
Note: Higher speed, less obvious machine movement is not always better. Using the machine correctly for your needs and holding perfect position is key. These machines are good quality for therapy use and for workouts.

·         On a Medium Energy Lineal machine like the video’s you watched, it might appear that the machine and person are not moving Or it might look like random shaking. These machines are usually plastic construction so have a lot less force/power into the muscles being targeted. This is the category of machine that you see people moving around on so their movement makes up for what the machine lower force cannot achieve.

·         Low Speed Pivotal machine. These machines often look like they are moving and the person is moving a lot.  This is no indication of quality as they are light, plastic machines usually with low force. They range from the small oval units sold at the mall to larger platforms with a front post and sometimes big rounded handle bars to hold for support. This category is the one most accompanied by fake specifications and outright lies like having 99 speeds or even 200 speeds. These machines run at around 12Hz (12 times a second) so 200 speeds is tiny increments and simply a sales pitch.
Important that they are well designed and good construction to provide some force not just movement. These machines are best suited for therapy and circulation. They can be used for small training benefits with a proper program followed exactly.

Note: In many YouTube videos the machine is not turned on. It doesn’t always need to be to demonstrate the position or program.

 

 
Trudi Posted On:2017-06-18 11:46:37

As always, thanks for your response.  I certainly wouldnt have tried any of those things on my Gravity HQ, but nice to know its safest not to.  I figured it wasnt a very high powered platform when you couldnt really even tell when its turned on in the video....

 
SH@W Science , Honesty @ Work Posted On:2017-06-15 15:11:26

 

It should be noted.

 On Dr Mercola's own site. Following his recommendations on how to choose of a machine to use.

You would NOT move on a powerful steel machine like he describes. But Power Plate do not sell anymore.....?

http://powerplate.mercola.com/

Solid steel construction. Avoid plastic platforms as they can and do break.

Adequate weight limit. If it can't handle your weight, it can break or strain to run at a lower intensity level.

 
SH@W Science , Honesty @ Work Posted On:2017-06-15 15:00:54

 Trudi.....

Long story short so you can understand my position. Sorry you will need to read a couple of articles to really understand if you want.
 
To really understand this issuie ....

http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/consumer-guide-and-safety-program/articles-1---10/vibration-training-and-precise-joint-angles

http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/the-industry-the-theory-and-trainers-tips/articles-21---30-2/extra-force-better-training-results
 
Short version ......
 
Story why Power Plate introduced  movements and weights etc.....
 
First Vibration Training studio in the world was set up by me. In conjunction with Power Plate. Using the original full steel units that produced 3.9kn of force. The static safety program was highly successful and so was the studio.
 
In 2004 Power Plate released a plastic version of the machine. It not only had electrical and quality  issues but was lacking so much power, we could not give sessions away on it to our regular customers.  Who had worked with the steel unit for 6 months.

And doing the regular static program felt like a walk around the block.
 
Multiple engineering tests from different sources failed the machine. It did not work properly with a person standing on it, it was so weak. It lost power at 20kg on my test.
 
We parted ways..... and I continued to follow the original plan.

 

Why did they start moving, adding weights and other random stuff ......?

Quite simply it was the only way to get any results or feel any kind of real burn from the now highly under-powered machines.   
 
   
So now with that info in your head...
 
(1) Real upper end Vibration Training is still static.  Pivotal or Lineal.
 
(2) They ended up coming up with the term Acceleration Training. Which is basically the idea of doing anything you would normally do, but on a light vibration platform. To slightly accelerate the benefits  you would normally obtain.
 

Is it dangerous to move on a PP unit ...?  NO. They are too weak. That rule is for real machines only.  

 
Trudi Posted On:2017-06-13 11:13:13

Hi again

I recently noticed an article on Mercola.com about the power plate with a bunch of exercises demonstrated.  They are showing using weights and a great deal of movement whilst on the plate...it struck me as not such a good idea especially on the powerful pivotal or lineal machines but curious to hear your assessment.  I apologise, I cant copy the link here but the article is on the fitness mercola site and is called Whole Body Vibration Training Mimics Metabolic Effects of Exercise and Improves Cardiovascular Health and Fitness in the Elderly.

As always, thanks for this great forum.

 

 
SH@W Science , Honesty @ Work Posted On:2017-06-09 19:25:33

 Cali...

Check out the answer for Connie below.  The Squat answer ... Same applies for you

 
Di Heap / VibePlus Posted On:2017-06-09 09:29:49

Hi Jude

Well, this could become a debate as the choice really comes down to which machine you prefer between these two good machines. It also depends on where you live (country) but you say you can get a Gravity Revolution 2nd hand. The CV9 is easy to buy in Australia and Canada and can be sent to New Zealand and other places (at a cost of course). Have you tried either or both machines? Please do so, if you can.

They are similarly rated but have differences. The Revolution frequency/speed can be set higher than the CV9 (except for Canadian machines which also set higher) and this is a selling point – but it really doesn’t matter, in my opinion, as it’s all about holding Perfect Position for a time period (one or two minutes usually.. just standing/circulation/warm up and some squats can be longer). High speed is not essential or important. You start off at lower speed and maybe build up to higher maybe (arm work (push-up and triceps- dip) needs to be lower speed to protect your shoulders.

The CV9 has a larger platform so it is accessible from all sides and the better looking machine with clear, simple settings and warranty. The Gravity Revolution is 2nd hand but should be a robust machine and any warranty depends on where you are buying it. My preference as it’s based purely on my use of the machines, not on their features so it is not relevant. Both companies provide good support.

Take a look at the pivotal program here, and ask again if you have any specific questions. Please tell us a little more about yourself so we can suggest better.

Program Instructions: http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/consumer-guide-and-safety-program/lineal-and-pivotal-safety-programs/pivotal-program

Program Poster: http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/uploads/pdfs/Pivotal-Safe-Strength-Poster.pdf

 
Cali Posted On:2017-06-08 09:36:22

Hello,

I love that there is this site available with such a wealth of knowledge from people who care. Thank you for that! Based on what I learned, I recently purchased a CV9 and love it.  I do have a previous knee injury so I was wondering if you have any links for modifications to squats etc. I appreciate your guidance. 

 
Jude Posted On:2017-06-07 21:07:49

Hi ya

 

 debating between purchasing a CV9 and a Gravity Revolution (2nd Hand)  would you recommend one over the other 

 

looking for weight loss and strength training 

 
SH@W Science , Honesty @ Work Posted On:2017-06-01 19:30:46

 Connie.....

 
Yes. Moving slowly on a Pivotal for most people is fine. Because the pelvis tips and takes away a lot of the shearing force we worry about on Lineal.
 
Your squats .... I would stay at a very low speed and go into a 110 degree squat and hold until you fatigue ( just like a Lineal squat ). The reason for this is that angle places almost all of the pressure on the quads and not actually on the joints.
 
The only issue is to begin with, your lack of leg strength will make you lose form very quickly.
 
I would highly recommend you find something to support your body weight until you gain that strength. You may even want to use that method permanently to take load off your knees whilst getting all the benefits.
 

Eg....... Bottom picture.
http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/the-industry-the-theory-and-trainers-tips/articles-21---30-2/industry-failing-the-obese-disabled-and-health-professionals 

 
Connie Posted On:2017-06-01 07:12:18

Hi Lloyd  A few questions.  We have a Gravity Revolution II.

1  General excercises that have been recommended involve moving while going at 17 Hz or higher.  An example would be squats ... lowering slowly, holding 5 sec, and raising back up and repeating 4 to 10 times.  At this point my husband would be the one doing this as youll see in point 2.  From your perspective would this be okay since it is a pivotal 

2  I have bone on bone knees in the medial portion.  I walk but am very limited and if I overdo Im even more limited for several days.  How would you suggest I start  

Thanks for all you help both now and in the past

 
SH@W Science , Honesty @ Work Posted On:2017-05-22 15:51:55

 More evidence is coming out to show Humans are NOT designed to do endurance exercise.

"Long periods of intense exercise can change the composition of your gut bacteria and lead to leaky guy syndrome."

"The research looked at soldiers taking part in an intensive training program and found that pro-longed exercise caused the protective barrier in their guts to become permeable, and could let harmful substances leak into the bloodstream."

 

 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/05/170504173454.htm

 

 

 

 
SH@W Science , Honesty @ Work Posted On:2017-05-22 15:29:04

 A few points from your response.

 
(a) When doing your squats. Face away from the machine and put your back against the center pole. It will help you not overwork your lower back.
 
(b) It will also help you keep your knees directly over your feet. Remember on a Pivotal unit, every mm counts.
 
(c) Taking it high speed on upper body is never recommended by me.
 
(d) One legged squats on Pivotal...NOT recommended by me. Tests show me initially no-one can hold them properly ( even athletes ) with rotating at the knee.
 

Try doing them facing sideways on the unit ( turning it into a Lineal vibration ) if you must do them. At least then any shearing will not be so profound.

 
Trudi Posted On:2017-05-22 14:47:05

Thanks very much for your reply.  Ive been doing slightly less in the last 5 days and the niggles have resolved, but Ill pass that info along to the husband as well, as its great information.  I will aim to focus on perfect form and see how things go from there.

At present, Im using really low speed, 5, for anything shoulder or upper body like press ups as it just feels safer.  I guess as the stability improves in the joints I may be able to increase that somewhat.  For squats, I had been using it as fast as 20 as Im usually pretty good with them, but as it was lower back and knees where I was feeling it maybe I should be using lower speeds and really focus on getting my form absolutely perfect.  The niggles I was feeling were mainly in my L knee and I am aware that leg is slightly weaker so it does make sense.  I may try some one legged squats at a really low speed to work on balancing that out as well. 

When just standing Ive been doing the P2 programme that is in the machine, though Ive backed off from doing it daily and that has helped the niggles as well.  I am really aware of how I stand, Im a long time yogi and also do Feldenkrais plus am an acupuncturist so posture is really important to me, though like anything Im sure it could always be improved and this feels like a great way to find your weak spots.

Again, thanks so much for sharing your expertise.

 
SH@W Science , Honesty @ Work Posted On:2017-05-19 15:19:46

 Hello Trudy...

Your question covers a bit of info and separate subjects. So I will compartmentalize the subjects for you. And have a question or two to help clarify some points.
 
(1) All VT done in a true whole body workout fashion. Eg... ( click on Pivotal Program )
http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/consumer-guide-and-safety-program/lineal-and-pivotal-safety-programs
 
Will give the body an overall circulation boost, at any speed. It is actually a side effect of VT that can not be escaped.

 http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/consumer-guide-and-safety-program/articles-41---50/red-skin-itchy-nose-or-swollen-hands
 
(2)  Niggles in joints ..?  Ok you have to understand muscle will respond and get stronger by creating higher quality muscle in as little as 3 weeks. Harder tissue found in your joints can take up to 4 months to catch up, bone 12 months minimum.
 
So my guess is you have the machine on a too higher FQ which is causing some shearing action on your joints. You need to drop the speed down, work on PERFECT form for 4 months and let your supporting tissue to get stronger.
 
Then slowly increase the FQ ( which on that unit is tied to KN force. Only Pivotal unit in the world to do so )  over time.
 
Remember this is not a race, it is more a life long marathon to rebuild your body from the inside out.
 
(3) What Fqs are you using for what poses at the moment ?
 

(4) The lower speeds are for extremely controlled poses and allow for clear communication to the brain and helps develop your central nervous system. Which in turns helps with strength and muscle control.
   

(5) Workout program......taking all muscle groups to complete fatigue in each pose....Yes once every second day is enough. Sometimes a 2 days on 1 day off for 2 weeks is a booster you can do if it does not cause over tiredness or out of control hunger ( two warning signed for over-training ).
   

 
Trudi Posted On:2017-05-18 17:04:16

Hi there.  Thanks so much for this website and forum, lots of interesting information to read through.  I am a fit and well 42 year old and just purchased a Gravity Revolution, in part for exercise recovery, in part for general well being.  From what Im reading though, I can also use it to increase strength and so I had a couple of questions.

1 Can I assume that when you mean low speed you mean up to 12 hertz, medium from 12 to 20 and high from 20 to 30

2 I have noticed some distinct aches and pains since I started using it last week, mostly Im just standing on it and doing the basic 10 minute programme it has set up.  The pains are in some places I dont usually get sore, knees mostly, with twinges elsewhere.  Ive been guessing that its just working out some kinks that Ive not been aware of...could that be right

3 If Im using it for strength doing the exercises you suggest is it more an every second day kind of thing

4 Im also a health practitioner and am wondering if it has a bit of a detoxifying effect also.  Nice to know these things before recommending to patients.

As I said, I truly appreciate all the time that is put into this fantastic resource.  Many thanks.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2017-04-29 13:42:48

 Yes. Unfortunately the company went under shorty after some marketers got involved in its management.

 

Contact these guys  http://www.vibrationexercise.com/ they should  might be able to help.

 

So this is the typical response those of us trying to help people in the real world, get from academics.
 
Disregard if you are not into following our industries aim of helping millions alternative options to lead a better lifestyle. 
 
This conversation followed a story about a Dr in training who felt  "judged" because she is morbid obese. And her own Doctor has given her 10 years to live.
Note: It was an article the lady herself wrote. No medical excuse given for her condition.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11853955


Lloyd Robert Shaw
Lloyd Robert Shaw True.....Most triathletes look like death warmed up.... But an obese physician offering advice to obese patients is the very definition of the blind leading the blind......... No amount of "feel good hugs" is going to save either of their lives........
Frankie Favero
Frankie Favero Lloyd Robert Shaw that is ridiculous! She's not a personal trainer nor a dietitian! I'd be concerned if she chained smoked and/or was an alcoholic. Being overweight is a multi factorial condition, don't simplify it.
Lloyd Robert Shaw
Lloyd Robert Shaw Frankie Favero And don't you over complicate it as apologists always do......I have been doing free work with morbidly obese people since 2004. Saving lives and saving limbs...... And I am fully aware of what it takes to get around all the issues behind it, and the issues it creates....... Making excuses is not part of any solution.
Lloyd Robert Shaw
Lloyd Robert Shaw Frankie Favero If she is too uneducated to help herself..... then how can she truly help anyone else ?
Frankie Favero
Frankie Favero Lloyd Robert Shaw wow it took you about two seconds to attack my character by calling me an "apologist" ha ha. You know darn well that people often are educated and can point out the lack of said education in others, yet not apply it to themselves. A c...See More
Frankie Favero
Frankie Favero Lloyd Robert Shaw good on you for your work, even though your comment was unkind 😊
Lloyd Robert Shaw
Lloyd Robert Shaw Frankie Favero Sorry but if you use common apologist lingo..... It will be my assumption.
Frankie Favero
Frankie Favero Lloyd Robert Shaw just like I'm sorry; but if you think you're apt to both diagnose and crucify people without having even met them, nor read their medical chart, then I'm going to attack your argument, not you as a person. It's called maturity, I hope you get there someday 😊
Lloyd Robert Shaw
Lloyd Robert Shaw Frankie Favero If you know the figures,, you would know in general 1 in 10,000 people have a medical condition that causes uncontrollable weight gain....in which case there is medication for it... and if they don't take it, they usually have 5 years to...See More
Lloyd Robert Shaw
Lloyd Robert Shaw Attack you as a person...... if I wanted to do that. I would ask you to prove to me how you care about people you don't know.......Show and tell......Not just keyboard warrior crap.
Frankie Favero
Frankie Favero Lloyd Robert Shaw I will definitely agree on your last point, we have completely different concepts of what "maturity means". Also, you may have helped and worked with a certain group of people but I'm a researcher and deal with science, facts and evid...See More
Frankie Favero
Frankie Favero Lloyd Robert Shaw here's an additonal resource for you
Mike M Posted On:2017-04-28 12:00:01

I have a question. From advice received here, several years ago I purchased a Wave Contour Plus machine, which was a nice enough machine when it was working. Unfortunately, when it was a couple years old it suddenly stopped being functional. The touch display no longer seems to work. It just gives a blank white screen, and without it, the machine is useless.

I have been unable to contact anyone at Wave as it appears theyve gone under. Am I out of luck as to getting parts to attempt a repair. Anyone know any contact info for any person who might still have some Contour Plus parts lying around. Or perhaps a schematic. Thanks for any help.

 
SH@W Science , Honesty @ Work Posted On:2017-04-09 15:51:05

 Rah

We don't name all of the approx. 500 brands of machines globally for obvious reasons. But we do offer a clear visual and physical guideline on all the different types and levels of equipment available.
 
http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/consumer-guide-and-safety-program/machine-reviews
 
As you can see from the guide, a Galileo is a High Speed Pivotal.
 

Which model were you looking at, and what is it intended for ?

 
rah Posted On:2017-04-09 11:31:59

Looking at a Galileo but I dont see any mention of this unit. Unless I missed something I did not see Galileo on any list

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2017-04-07 14:58:11

 Debbie...

 
 Yes...CV100 is a Medium Energy Lineal.

No High Energy Lineal Units for sale on OZ.  No one builds or sells them
 

But email me, I do have some lease units over there you might be interested in.

 
DebinBrisbane Posted On:2017-04-07 12:26:02

Hi all, just to clarify that the Cardiotech CVC100 is a Medium Energy Lineal platform and there are no High Energy units available in Australia.  or are there.

 
SH@W Science , Honesty @ Work Posted On:2017-03-14 14:07:11

  A$2500 for a 4 year old machine brand “Amazing Super Health”........ No thats just a rip off.They got them in Asia for about 100AUSD each. And they sold them with completely fake specifications. In fact most of the selling points were fake And its well out of its warranty.

Go for something new covered by a warranty if you can afford it..

 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2017-03-14 13:11:02

Jenny

You were looking at paying A$2500 for a 4 year old machine brand “Amazing Super Health”. My opinion is that’s a lot of money for a second hand machine.

A brand I recommend is Cardiotech. I’ve met the CEO and I know their machines well. And the reputation of the company, warranty, and backup provided is important. I suggest you talk to one of the sales staff. If you don’t get the answers you need or too much sales talk get back to me.  You might find one of the machines on ebay but they are large to transport and must be carefully.

Take a look at the machines here:

http://www.cardiotech.com.au/vibration-machines

Your choices would be the CV9 which a large but good looking machine well suitable for your needs for therapy and later for training. Also for your husband. The design of this one has a platform (the base that you do the exercise positions on) that is able to be accessed from 3 sided – great for exercise positions. (This is my favourite machine of its type so I’m just a littler biased. I have one in the studio where I work, in Auckland)  http://www.cardiotech.com.au/vibration-machines/cv9

There’s also a machine with side handlebars that would be very stable for therapy and training. It would be suitable for you both. http://www.cardiotech.com.au/vibration-machines/cv12/

There’s a little machine also – Lifeback2. It would get you started at low cost as long as you have a stable chair or rail to hold onto.  This little machine is good but might not meet your training needs.

Note: I am partial to this brand but I don’t get any payment for referring you. If you look at another brand, ask again and I will tell you anything I know.

 
SH@W Science , Honesty @ Work Posted On:2017-03-13 18:25:34

Mariel

Your old injury and plates will not be an issue.

The older Hypervibe unit is fine. And yes it should give some decent results if used properly ( come back on here for that advice after you get your machine )
 

The reason for the Blacklist .... The Owners / Management have done certain things to degrade our trust in them to such a point, we simply cant trust anything they ever say.

 
Mariel Posted On:2017-03-13 10:22:02

Btw, I am in NZ and the reason I am leaning towards the Hypervibe Performance is that I can get a demo model for a good price from Elite Fitness. I undertand the Performance is the older model, but have read its specs and was impressed given its relatively low price compared to the newer Hypervibe models and other brands. Would greatly appreciate your comments on this..

 
Mariel Posted On:2017-03-13 09:43:42

I fractured my tibiae and had metal pins inserted three years ago. Would it be safe to use vibration plates to increase bone strength and density, and later for fitness training. I am in my 60s, moderately overweight, and diabetic.

I was thinking of getting a Hypervibe Performance, but concerned that you put the brand Hypervibe in your Blacklist. Could you elaborate on the reasons for that please. Many thanks.

 
SH@W Science , Honesty @ Work Posted On:2017-03-12 17:10:17

 

Elaine
 Yes you should be able to closely follow the Vibra-Train Standard Safety Program on your new unit.  ( working within the new plate size ) .
 
18- 22 hz should be a comfortable setting to use.
 
You may also like to check out a few of the other poses you can do on pivotal machines you would not have done in the studio ( a similar program I designed years ago ).
 

Read instructions carefully.

 http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/consumer-guide-and-safety-program/lineal-and-pivotal-safety-programs   

 
elaine Posted On:2017-03-12 08:15:32

For the last 10 years I have been going to a Vibratrain studio 3 times a week. For circumstances beyond my control I can no longer go so have bought a second hand (like new, approx 18mths old) Gravity Revolution machine. My question is can I do the same exercises, in the same order and length of time on the Gravity Revolution machine that I was doing at Vibratrain. The squats, both basic and super and the core/ ab exercises I have been doing for 2 mins each, is this okay on the Gravity Revolution machine and what frequency setting would be similar or beneficial for muscle tone.

 
Jenny Posted On:2017-03-11 23:33:32

Hello Di HeapVibePlus, thankyou. I must admit I froze regarding selecting a machine and still havent bought one. Im 55ish a little overweight, concerned about bone density and have a threatening meniscus knee injury that I dont want to worsen or be shaken to pieces on a poor machine. I am interested in a machine that offers muscle assistance, excercise and health benefits for a time poor life. My husband has long term weight issues worse knees and lower back pain and would use it once he realises health or weight loss benefits. We live in Australia if that effects which machines are available. Your guidance is very greatfully recieved. Cost, would save for the right machine or look on eBay for a second hand one.

 
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